County Lines is a powerful and moving coming-of-age film about a 14 year old boy who is groomed into a ‘county lines’ criminal network.
Inspired by the stories he heard while mentoring young people at an East London pupil referral unit, writer-director Henry Blake’s powerful feature debut boasts a compelling central performance by Conrad Khan as 14-year-old Tyler, with strong supporting performances from Ashley Madekwe and
Harris Dickinson.
Harris Dickinson:
Big ups. How're you doing, Ashley?
Ashley Madekwe:
I'm good. How are you?
Harris Dickinson:
I'm well. Weird times. It's been a minute.
Ashley Madekwe:
Yeah, it has. I haven't been in England for a really, really long time. Is that where you are, you're in London?
Harris Dickinson:
Yeah. Where are you, in LA?
Ashley Madekwe:
I'm in LA, yeah.
Harris Dickinson:
So you came purely for the film when you came over to shoot it?
Ashley Madekwe:
No, I came especially for County Lines. I was sleeping in my friend's guest room.
Harris Dickinson:
How long did you come beforehand?
Ashley Madekwe:
I came not more than eight days, maybe, for costume fittings, a little bit of rehearsal, and then straight into it.
Harris Dickinson:
Did you have rehearsal? I was going to ask you that. I don't remember having a …
Ashley Madekwe:
We did. Well, I had rehearsal with Tyler and Alia so that we could create some sort of family dynamic. And I also had pre rehearsals with Henry, our director, on Zoom, or back then it wasn't Zoom, on FaceTime.
Harris Dickinson:
Yeah. Is that how you got cast, over FaceTime or did you do a tape?
Ashley Madekwe:
I did a tape and then had all these preconceptions of who I thought Henry was. And then we did a Zoom chat and I was like, "Oh, wow. You are not who I thought you were.”
Harris Dickinson:
What kind of themes? What were your pre perceptions or you just didn't know?
Ashley Madekwe:
I had no idea. I thought the language was so realistic, and I thought, "Oh, this is going to be a black man. I'm going to meet a black man." And I didn't, it was this smiling Kiwi. I was really taken aback, but yeah, I enjoyed meeting him. And then I got the part after that. What about you?
Harris Dickinson:
It was a weird one because I think I got cast and then it was a while before it started. So it was a long time leading up to it and I was hoping that it would happen. It was one of them ones. I was really hoping that it would get told, and then I got the dates and then I just turned up.
Harris Dickinson:
But I mean, he is such an interesting man. I was just talking about him to someone else. Did he immediately tell you of his experience about it or, I mean, did you know that from the beginning?
Ashley Madekwe:
I didn't know it when I read the script, but I was immediately impressed by how authentic it was. You could tell that whoever wrote it had a connection to what they were writing about, but I didn't know to what depths. And then when we had our first meeting, he told me all about it. I mean, he was an invaluable resource when we were shooting.
Harris Dickinson:
He's so knowledgeable.
Ashley Madekwe:
Yeah. Really knowledgeable. Going into it, how aware were you of the concept of County Lines?
Harris Dickinson:
I had an understanding of it because there were boys at school that used to come in and they'd have a lot of money. It was this wave. And then there was obviously ... I mean, it's glamorized in rap music a lot, and the idea of running a line and going country has been in my periphery, but not to this depth. What about you?
Ashley Madekwe:
Kind of the same. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a stranger to the world because of where I grew up, and my brothers had been in and out of trouble with the police. So I definitely was aware of it, but also I think same, a periphery. It's an issue you're aware of, but it wasn't impacting my life here in LA per se. So how much was I really thinking about it? And then the Henry script, I think really drives it home. The human cost of it, I don't think I was thinking about, because you hear about it in rap music, and, yeah, it's glamorized. But the human cost is really apparent in Henry's script.
Harris Dickinson:
Yeah. Well, ultimately it's about you two. I mean, it's about the mother and son, how it affects your relationship. I mean, it's obviously a big reality for a lot of families. Did you and Henry talk about ... because obvious thinking obviously the film mostly follows Tyler and how, as a mother, you are watching your son get involved in this obviously very dangerous world, but also for me, I felt from your character, and it came through as well, because it wasn't just about Tyler. I got the sense that from your character, we got to see this single mom that also was struggling and that also wanted to have her own life and her own fun and freedom and just enjoy herself. Was that something you spoke about, or was that …
Ashley Madekwe:
Yeah, we did. We spoke about I am the age I am, but I don't necessarily play my age. And so people always assume that I'm younger and what that meant for the role of Toni and Henry was obvious she had a kid when she was 15, 16, and I want to explore what that has meant for her growing up. And she's actually got her second one and they are living on the bread line or even below the bread line, the poverty in that apartment was so apparent, I thought. And, yeah, we spoke about her struggles and how she loves her children, but life sometimes just gets in the way.
Ashley Madekwe:
And she's not a bad mother. She's definitely not a great one, but she's doing the best she can with the cards that she's been dealt. And I think that a lot of women are in that position. She has to go to work so she can't be there all day, every day. It's a sad reality for many working moms.
Harris Dickinson:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. It's a really nice balance as well, because you do go between are you a bad mom or not? You really feel for you as well. And you really have an understanding of all of your realities, which is obviously testament to you, man. It was wicked.
Ashley Madekwe:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. When you were developing Simon, is that someone that you recognize? When you read it, were you like, "Yeah, I know this man. I know this character. I've seen this before." Or was it a new space for you?
Harris Dickinson:
I think I latched onto a certain idea of who the character was and boys from that world. I mean, Henry the one who really helped flesh it out and break through the initial, just like, oh, this is a drug dealer, or this is someone who's running things in his area. I mean, it developed further than that. And I think it is important because, I mean, this isn't me defending him, but despite him being this exploitative, vicious person, there's also something there that he's been caught up in as a younger boy, being from a similar area, similar background, and getting enticed by that money and that entrepreneurial spirit, which is so heavily spread and perpetuated, do you know what I mean? The chase of wealth and the chase of being able to display your wealth. That was definitely something. And what about with Conrad? What was it like working with him? How was that like, figuring out your dynamic? It must have been quite difficult, trying to become family like that.
Ashley Madekwe:
It was. I think the rehearsals helped. That week of rehearsals really helped. We'd already spoken about the emotional journey of a lot of the scenes before we got there, which I think was important, because, I mean, you remember, there wasn't much time on the day. It was a really tight shooting schedule. But also I was aware that their relationship is quite fraught, so it wouldn't benefit us in our performance to be too chummy, chummy when we didn't need to be. It wasn't like I wasn't friends with Conrad, but I kept my distance between takes and stuff so that we could play the reality of the situation. There wasn't enough time to jump in and out, I think, emotionally. Sometimes when there is time on set, I can do that, I can do the scene and I can go back to being me. But if there isn't, I didn't think there was in that, then I just tried to keep myself in it.
Harris Dickinson:
I noticed that about you and I like it. It's difficult, isn't it, when you're on set and you've got to try and jump between two realities and you're trying to get to know someone as an actor and as a character. It is odd. Was that a choice of yours or was Henry just …
Ashley Madekwe:
It was just my choice. It was my choice. He didn't say it to me. It was my choice. I also take my headphones to set and I just put them in and listen to whatever I think is going to help me be in the moment and just zone people out, not for everything, but on the right job.
Harris Dickinson:
And also it was a quick shoot, right? I mean, do you remember how many days it was?
Ashley Madekwe:
I think it was about 21 or 22 days total and then my stuff was maybe half of that, and all stacked on. They tried to consolidate my stuff as much as possible, and then they shot all the stuff at the beach and in Sadiq's apartment, all that stuff on the back end of the shoot.
Harris Dickinson:
Yeah. And I mean, because it's a dark film, there's no getting away from that, it is a harsh reality of something that's dark and upsetting and tragic, what was the vibe like on set? I mean, you spoke about it little bit with Conrad, but in general, what was it like? Because I was only there for four or five days.
Ashley Madekwe:
It felt like everyone was doing the film for the right reasons. Nobody was there for the money. That was definitely for sure. But everyone was there because they really wanted to be there. They believed in the script, they believed in Henry, and I felt like everyone was going above and beyond in every department. Sometimes in a low-budget film it can feel a bit like amateur hour. It didn't feel like amateur hour. It felt like everyone working to the best of their ability. It just happened to be low-budget.
Harris Dickinson:
What was it like working with Henry? Did you like it?
Ashley Madekwe:
I loved it. He's so passionate. He's so passionate. And he spent a really long time beforehand talking to me about films he loved or photographers he loved. And then we had this shared emotional language, I guess. Did he not have any rehearsal with you? You were involved long time before I was, though. So I'm sure he maybe felt you were locked in.
Harris Dickinson:
I mean, I hope he doesn't watch this and say, "You lie. We did have a rehearsal." But I don't remember a rehearsal, I really don't. I mean, we met with some people that had been ex perpetrators and ex gang members. That was sort of rehearsal.
Ashley Madekwe:
When did you do that? How far in advance of filming?
Harris Dickinson:
Probably four months before, maybe. Well, when I knew it was happening. But I also said to him, because I'd just got a car at the time and I hadn't been driving for a while, for a couple of years, and I was like, "Oh, Henry, I just got a car, man. Maybe I should drive around or we should drive around London and just blasting tunes and pretending that, I don't know, I'm just sussing out the area." And he was like, "Yeah, that's a good idea. Let's do it." But we never did. I mean, it might have been a bit odd if it's what we actually did, and just drove around. But I did drive around a lot. I will say that. I did drive around East London a lot, because I think there's a certain awareness of, I don't know, there's a certain darkness to being in a car on your own all night. It's a weird one.
Ashley Madekwe:
Yeah. It's very isolating.
Harris Dickinson:
It's very isolating, but there's a power to it as well when you feel like these are your streets or this is your area.
Ashley Madekwe:
Yeah. I think it feeds into the character, the nocturnal-ness of it, someone who just moves in the nighttime, although we do see you in the daytime, but he must be doing most of his business at night, I imagine. Who came up with what he looked like? Was that a collaboration or did you have a very strong idea of what you felt he needed to be wearing?
Harris Dickinson:
I mean, I did. I had an idea of what I thought he'd wear, but I think it was too expensive for the film. I mean, people that are in that position, it's a balance of wanting to show how much money you've got, but also hiding how much money you've got.
Ashley Madekwe:
Oh, they always wear labels. Always.
Harris Dickinson:
Yeah. It's a weird one. But I like having some say in costume, but some costume designers don't always like it. I don't know. What about you? What was your experience? Did you have input?
Ashley Madekwe:
I did. I definitely had input, but I was also aware that I'm so used to ... because it's not a period piece per se. It's steeped ... It's not very steeped in reality, and I know that I am so far removed from that reality now in terms of my day-to-day life. And although I came from that world and I recognize those people, it's been a long time that I've lived there.
Harris Dickinson:
Have you been back to London since?
Ashley Madekwe:
I have been back to London because straight after County Lines, I shot something else in London and then I came home to LA for a bit and then went back to finish my bits on that. Then the premier was in October. So October was the last time. So I haven't been home for just over a year now. Coronavirus.
Harris Dickinson:
Before we finish, because I think we've got time up, why don't you tell the audience where they can watch it and how, because I think it's important that people see this film.
Ashley Madekwe:
Oh, I love that you're putting that on me. Okay. County Lines is out on December 4th in cinemas in the UK and island. And also you can watch it on the BFI iPlayer or just Player? Anyway, you can watch it at the BFI, on their website. Done.